Tracy & Hepburn: An Intimate Memoir

[HollywoodHepcat]

Here Here!!!! ;D

And now I'm off to bed...

[smith]

Catherine,

It was Tracy who was Catholic and Louise was not a Catholic . I believe they didn't get married in a church but I am not a Catholic so someone else will have to discuss how easy/hard it would have been to get a divorce. Of course Spencer never would have been able to marry Katharine officially as a Catholic anyway as they were both divorced.

People also forget that Spencer had a short term affair with Loretta Young and Spencer and Louise had actually been separated during that time . My impression of Spencer's marriage in 1941 was that it they were still living together it was a marriage hanging by a thread .

But yes its great that Kanin wrote the book despite the problems that it caused

[Sherry]

Louise was an Episcopalian, Tracy was a Catholic. The fact that they weren't married in a Catholic Church by a priest already made the marriage "unoffiicial" in the eyes of the church. Louise could have divorced him legally at any point -- ignoring any religious implications. Only if they wanted a divorce sanctioned by the Catholic Church would there have been difficulties because the church doesn't recognize divorce so to make it tidy, they'd have had to seek an annulment which takes years and all kinds of gyrations to achieve.
But a civil divorce was very possible. And if they had wanted it, Kate and Spencer could have been married by a judge.
The correct move on the part of Spencer and Louise would have been a clean break. Divorce and move on with their lives. All parties would have benefited from it including the Tracy children.
A lot of people defend Louise staying in the marriage due to the disability of John and the need for Spencer's financial support. Frankly, does anyone believe that a divorce would have altered his financial commitment to his kids or even to Louise? I can't believe it would have. I think he'd have supported them financially and been involved in their lives and would have still contributed to the John Tracy Clinic.
Louise was just one of those women who can't let go. She's not the only woman who has ever reacted this way just as she is not the only woman who faced raising two kids without a husband.
And her comment to Kate that "I thought you were only a rumor" is pathetic and I can totally understand Kate's feeling angry when she heard it.
Kate lived a very convoluted life with Tracy as a result of his staying tied to Louise. I think she deserved better. I think Kate acknowledged that the way they spent their lives was a mistake.
She said in "Me". "I must say it taught me a lesson -- one must figure out how much you care about this or that. Then put up a fight. Or don't. Do you love someone? If you love someone, and the person gives every evidence of wishing to part and you know really that it is finished -- let the person go! Do yourself a favor. Be noble. It has a better lasting effect than hanging on and constantly reminding yourself and the other that your life together was a disaster. And it is honest. And it is going forward. The status quo in a bad marriage is a not a productive state. The new relationship may open many doors beneficial to everyone concerned. That solidified failure is so sterile. ... Hollow. And endless until death. Sad. A mistake sitting right on your lap for life."

I think there is no question that Kate wished that the entire situation had played out differently. And she was correct to come to this conclusion and quite brave and honest to say it.

Sherry

[Shaun]

I just read this for a second time and it only took me two days. My favorite parts are where Spencer goes off on that guy who says that KH isn't much of an actor, and the part where the dopey hotel manager comes to Spencer to tell him to tell Kate to quit walking through the lobby wearing pants. Next I want to read the Prideaux book and then the new one about Bette Davis.

[Cate]

Yeah the pants scene is interesting because Kate actually respects the hotel's dress code -- not by wearing a dress but by using the service entrance! And then Kanin notes that a few years after that, he and a friend were at the same hotel and when they looked around, they noticed that about 15 of the women around them were wearing pants! Then he was at a London cafeteria and noticed a girl with painted on freckles. He asked her if they were fake and she said, "Yeah, do you like 'em?" Kanin says, "Yeah, they remind me of Katharine Hepburn."
"That's the idea, chum." ;D Such a trendsetter she was. Without even meaning to be!

[martha]

old thread ... book i've long loved. today i pulled my old old old paperback from 1972 (bantam paperback .. ) off the bookshelf .. yellowed, brittle, will fall apart the next time i really open it up. . inspired me to purchase a used hardback online as a replacement i can actually read and savor.

i recall as some in this thread have the joy of reading this when it was first published (i was a adolescent .. mom was the big fan at the time) .. then the discomfort when i became aware that kate was unhappy when the book was first published (again as discussed above) .. then everyone forgave everyone ..

and it is a lovely book. kanin is such a fabulous writer ... as we know. as we know how well he and ruth gordon wrote FOR kate and spence .. as, well ..

i thought my rambling thoughts somehow fit here. cheers.

[Hep]

i got this book on Ebay a couple weeks ago but havent had the chance to read it yet. and reading all these posts makes me want to pick it up now haha. think i will

[dreamer]

Martha - have the very same book. It sounds as if you had been here and were describing my book.

But I am happy just to have it. It was impossible to get it over here. And then on a trip to Spain - what a JOY - found it in a used book store. I can't pass those book stores - not even on trips and funny enough found some of the most interesting books that I have on journeys.

[HollywoodHepcat]

It's just about the best book ever. Next to Me.

This point was pretty much without merit, but I CAN'T SLEEP AND I LOVE KATE AND SPENCE AND GARSON AND RUTH AND GEORGE AND, HELL, EVEN MR. MAYER LIKE I DON'T KNOW WHAT CAPS LOCKS FOR DREHMEHTIC EFFECT.

[martha]

i just reread this amazing book --- the used hardcover i describe above. sigh. i savored it and stretched otu the experience. on miss hepburn's (i'm newly reminded i haven't earned the right to call her Kate .. i'll relax on this shortly ) "exile" of garson kanin and ruth gordon after the betrayal (she perceived) of the breach of class and disclosure of what she considered private in this book .... The AT HOME WITH KATE (2007) author writes about a meeting two decades after the publication of this memoir ... after ruth gordon passed away and Kanin had remarried another great American theatre personality. p. 190:

"Kate ws someone who couldn't stay angry forever, though she did keep Kanin away for more than twenty years. In the early nineties, Kate decided to forgive his disloyalty and phoned him to invite him over for dinner. Because Kate was very concerned about how the evening might unfold, she insisted that her friend Cynthia McFadden also be present. Kanin accepted the invitation and brought along his new wife, Marian Seldes."

"Over the course of the dinner, Kate and her guests realized that they had too much to share with one another, and so the past betrayal was forgotten. Afterward Kate and Kanin sat together, immersed in old stories as if they were the ony two people in the room. Later that evening, after Kanin had left, Kate remarked to Cynthia a powerful insight that she had gleaned: 'After more then twenty years of not speaking with each other, tonight I recognized that I missed him more than he missed me."

Kanin lived until 1999. I find it comforting to know that these two old friends had a few years of these old story remembering sessions before he died.

The book feels now like a love letter to the both of them from Kanin that we all have been granted special privileges to read.

[Judy]

martha said:

i just reread this amazing book --- the used hardcover i describe above. sigh. i savored it and stretched otu the experience. on miss hepburn's (i'm newly reminded i haven't earned the right to call her Kate .. i'll relax on this shortly ) "exile" of garson kanin and ruth gordon after the betrayal (she perceived) of the breach of class and disclosure of what she considered private in this book .... The AT HOME WITH KATE (2007) author writes about a meeting two decades after the publication of this memoir ... after ruth gordon passed away and Kanin had remarried another great American theatre personality. p. 190:

"Kate ws someone who couldn't stay angry forever, though she did keep Kanin away for more than twenty years. In the early nineties, Kate decided to forgive his disloyalty and phoned him to invite him over for dinner. Because Kate was very concerned about how the evening might unfold, she insisted that her friend Cynthia McFadden also be present. Kanin accepted the invitation and brought along his new wife, Marian Seldes."

"Over the course of the dinner, Kate and her guests realized that they had too much to share with one another, and so the past betrayal was forgotten. Afterward Kate and Kanin sat together, immersed in old stories as if they were the ony two people in the room. Later that evening, after Kanin had left, Kate remarked to Cynthia a powerful insight that she had gleaned: 'After more then twenty years of not speaking with each other, tonight I recognized that I missed him more than he missed me."

Kanin lived until 1999. I find it comforting to know that these two old friends had a few years of these old story remembering sessions before he died.

The book feels now like a love letter to the both of them from Kanin that we all have been granted special privileges to read.

I think Kate's comment about missing him more than he missed her, was the best and most emphatic way she knew to express just HOW much she did miss him - and not only him, but by the early 90's, so many of their mutual friends. They had a history together and it's sad when one loses that. So I bet by then she felt that loss very keenly. But I think it's highly unlikely that the missing wasn't mutual. In 1997, when the Katharine Hepburn Garden on E. 47th St. in NYC was dedicated, Garson Kanin and Marion Seldes were there. And Seldes will speak at an upcoming library evening.....And, when I met her a few months back and handed her some information about the Katharine Hepburn Cultural Arts Center and said there were plans afoot to name a theatre after her, she looked at me and said as only Seldes could: Oh, do it! You must!

Looking at it all from Kate's perspective (as if I could), one can understand her reaction. After protecting their lives together for so long and after the relatively recent loss of Spencer Tracy, she probably felt wounded and then furious. Especially since it came from someone so close. And once she was at that place, she could not see past her anger to the really beautiful and moving tribute this book was to them both. And also, really, Kanin's own way of remembering his friend ST.

I wonder if the publication of Leaming's book, about which she was said to have been very distressed, had anything to do with her softening toward Kanin. I also have an early to mid 90s interview she gave where the interviewer asked her if she could do anything differently or if she could change anything about herself what would it be. And she replied - not looking at him - that she would have been "easier."

A stunning comment. But perhaps this meeting with Garson was her attempt to let certain things go and be easier on him and on herself - because it surely did damage to her as well, to have harbored anger and hurt feelings for all those years.

Anyway, just my thoughts on it all. Very glad they did get back at least something of what was lost. In light of all the other junk that's been written about her and about them, his book shines like a beacon.

By the way - took a LONG time for me to start calling her Kate, but among friends - especially in a group where there's affection for her - I don't think there's any way it could be construed as being disrespectful. So go on. Call her Kate.

[dreamer]

Judy - so true (very similar to what many of us think I guess - only you put them to words) love posts like yours - keep them coming in

[lionessinwinter]

I agree Tracy and Hepburn An Intimate Memoir is probably my favorite book written about them both. Granted, Kate was said to be upset to have been she felt "betrayed" by someone who knew them both so well but ultimately at that time it is the closest we could get to Kate and Spence and feel like the proverbial fly on the wall. I just reread it for the upteenth time and love it more and more each time I read it

[gottamatch]

I finished this book last week. Timeless. I didn't know Kate didn't want it published because of Louise. I'm SO glad Kanin talked her into letting him do it.

One of my favourite parts is where he talks of the first time the Kanins went out to dinner with ST and KH for the first time in P U B L I C.. that was when Kate fainted wasn't it?

I also love pp.108-109 when Kate was looking at an appartment to rent, the rental agent and Kanin were wondering why she was taking so long when finally she came down the stairs and after Kanin asked what she was doing, Kate replied "Taking a shower" and after a sarcastic remark 'couldnt you wait till you got home?' Katharine says;

"Listen you ass, if I'm thinking of renting a house, I've got to find out what it's like taking a shower in it, don't I?"

hahaaa I love this book. I'm SO reading it again. As soon as I've read Making of African Queen again..

Jess

[gottamatch]

Sherry, I agree with your entire statement. My mum can't understand why I'm fascinated with the Hepburn Tracy relationship and when I watch one of their movies (which is at least once a week lol) she makes a comment about how she feelt sorry for Katharine "having to put up with that" (making reference to Spencer not divorcing Louise for the 'sake' of their children).

Well said though, all agreed. =)

Jess