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Post by smith on Jan 7, 2006 2:59:54 GMT -5
I don't think I have ever seen this subject discussed before but I wonder whether Katharine will one day be seen as a groundbreaker for the following reason.
Most people on this board would regard the young and older Hepburn as a beautiful woman . However the movie industry is incredibly sexist when it comes to age and even more so when it comes to women . My theory about older people in movies particularly women is that they don't get to appear because they remind people of what they will become with the aging process . In that respect Katharine was a pioneer because she refused to " go away" and actually let people see her as a older person . Compare this to Dietrich and Garbo . The quality of the films Katharine did in the final years is another subject.
And lets face it it is confronting to watch a person who was once young and vibrant and see them age on film .
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Post by karina on Jan 7, 2006 4:23:54 GMT -5
Possibly, although Bette Davis was no stranger to letting people see her in old age - you did say quality of the films was another subject.... That said, Bette didn't just appear in horror flicks, witness A Piano for Mrs Cimino and The Whales of AugustAnd then again, it's a little different with UK actors both on stage & screen. I think they're often less image conscious than their Hollywood counterparts - of Kate's generation or older, Dame Edith Evans & Peggy Ashcroft are just 2 who spring to mind. And now of course we have Maggie Smith, Judi Dench, Vanessa Redgrave etc
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Post by Judy on Jan 7, 2006 11:48:21 GMT -5
Possibly, although Bette Davis was no stranger to letting people see her in old age - you did say quality of the films was another subject.... That said, Bette didn't just appear in horror flicks, witness A Piano for Mrs Cimino and The Whales of AugustAnd then again, it's a little different with UK actors both on stage & screen. I think they're often less image conscious than their Hollywood counterparts - of Kate's generation or older, Dame Edith Evans & Peggy Ashcroft are just 2 who spring to mind. And now of course we have Maggie Smith, Judi Dench, Vanessa Redgrave etc Don't forget Strangers: The Story of a Mother and Daughter - Bette at her absolutely sensational best. And leave us not forget the remarkable Stanwyck, who had a good run late in her career on TV - let her hair go grey and was as she ever was......Again, not in as great material, but I'm talking about her and not the material. (Aside: I saw her onstage when the Film Society of Lincoln Center honored her - I forget the year, probably in the early 80's. She came out at the end of an evening of tributes in a PINK sequined gown. Silver hair. Slim and beautiful. I never heard such applause. It lasted FOREVER....Well at the Cukor tribute in the late 70's I DID hear such applause: When Kate suprised everyone (she was totally unannounced) and walked out of the wings at the end to bring Cukor onstage. The applause started in waves in the front of the house, where thankfully I was sitting, and slowly swelled back and up to the rafters as it sunk in that it was actually her. That was some cool applause, I tell ya.) But I digress... :-) It's certainly not just Hollywood that throws old people out with the trash, it's society in general - at least American society. And in the UK, EVERYTHING's different - I agree, Karina. Actors have traditionally been allowed to do every kind of work there - from theatre to movies to TV and back again - and they are allowed to do it well into their old age - without fear of reprisal to their careers. Some say it's just because of proximity; it's just easier to do all three in the UK. An actor there really doesn't have to make decisions about what coast to live on or to uproot his or her family, if you have one, to take a job. Still, it's just a different history and attitude in the UK. Over here the caste system is much more in place, although it HAS gotten better over the years. But generally speaking, if you are in the movies, you're God. If you work in the theatre, you haven't quite made it and certainly you don't aspire to ONLY be a star in the theatre; it's used as a diving board to Hollywood. And, God forbid, if you work in TV, well....enough said. I'll never forget watching a Golden Globes show one year. People who attend are always talking about how much they love that evening cause all three areas get to mix and just have fun (even though most people recognize how ludicrous this particular award has always been). Anyway, this year James Garner had won an award for his TV work (can't remember exactly for what). When he got to the podium, he made some joke about what fun it was to rub elbows with all the movie folk as he walked up to the stage from his seat waaaaay in the back where the kept the TV actors. People laughed, but they knew what he meant. I loved him for doing that. Am I digressing again? Sorry.... Anyway, sexism and ageism still reigns in American movies. And you don't have to be a 60-year-old woman to experience that. Most are out the door at 40. Try finding a first-run current movie where the woman's part is every bit as essential as the man's. Oh, sure, they exist. But they really have become exceptions. If I may continue from my soapbox, this is yet another thing that has always drawn me to movies of the 30's and 40's and to a certain extent the 50's. Not only the great, great stars but also the fact that back then, they wrote parts for men AND women. And - shock of shocks - in the SAME movie. Men and women actually acted TOGETHER. I mean they actually appeared in the same films and were equally as vital to the stories that were being told. Yes, there were the quote unqoute the "women's movies" and the "guy's movies" but just think of all the great teams, the people who worked together again and again. Who was the star of Bringing Up Baby? David Huxley or Susan Vance? Who was the star of Notorious? Dev or Isabelle Hupperman...well, some would say it was actually Claude Rains :-Who was the star of The Lady Eve? Hopsy or Jean Harrington? I don't just have nostalgia for these films - well, I can't have nostalgia for them; I'm not THAT old. When I first started seeing them, say, when I was in high school, they were long gone from current release. I couldn't pick up a newspaper newspaper and read a review that told me to go seem them. I just went (Aside: And saw MOST of them for the first time on big screens in revival houses throughout NYC). And by virtue of their general excellence was engaged and entertained and hooked for life. I would rather see them over and over again than go to the local theatre now and see the same movies (albeit with different titles) over and over again. Of COURSE, I'm generalizing. Good movies and the artists working in them are out there. But this is just the general, overall feeling I get when I go the movies nowadays. So, was there a topic here? :-) Oh, yeah. Kate was unique in so many, many ways. And having a career well into her 80's was one of those ways. Judy
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Post by karina on Jan 7, 2006 12:25:17 GMT -5
As usual, well said Judy And I could never forget Strangers in which Gena Rowlands was equally good. I even liked Bette in Family Reunion and the Hotel TV series. And of course EVERYTHING's different in UK - it's what makes us so unique/eccentric But then the East Coast isn't called New England for nothing - those Connecticut/Maine/New York actors were (and are) something different from Hollywood/America mainstream
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Post by Judy on Jan 7, 2006 15:08:40 GMT -5
As usual, well said Judy And I could never forget Strangers in which Gena Rowlands was equally good. I even liked Bette in Family Reunion and the Hotel TV series. And of course EVERYTHING's different in UK - it's what makes us so unique/eccentric But then the East Coast isn't called New England for nothing - those Connecticut/Maine/New York actors were (and are) something different from Hollywood/America mainstream Well....Maybe that's why so many Americans are anglophiles.... But I'll just leave you with the woids of KathArine Hepburn to Dick Cavett (a bit of a paraphrase, but): "I just go mad when English actors are thought to be better than American actors. Cause I think American actors are better than English actors....Oh, yes, we have great style....But we don't know how to speak..... :-) Judy
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Post by HollywoodHepcat on Jan 7, 2006 23:31:41 GMT -5
JUDY (Judy Judy lol Cary..), you are my hero!!!!! You've seen/met Barbara Stanwyck AND Katharine Hepburn?!?!?!
*falls over*
Just had to tell ya. ;D
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