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Post by dreamer on Nov 29, 2006 18:08:22 GMT -5
PS It is funny - I do not like to watch her movies - but like to listen to her songs - "Marlene" just to meantion one - as I like to listen to Zarah Leander (Swedich) a great singer from the same periode (called the German Garbo) - what I don't think she was - but look for your self - she was too a quit interesting lady en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zarah_Leanderdreamer |
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Post by lionessinwinter on Dec 7, 2006 18:08:38 GMT -5
I am in the middle of two books right now Long Days Journey Into Night which is pretty loyal to the movie but there are bits that are different in any case it makes me much more appreciative of Eugene O'Neill's talent. I am also just finishing up The Way We Were by Princess Diana's former butler Paul Burrell it isnt really explosive so much but it is sweet in its own way and for the most part respectful to Diana. I am getting ready to start a couple book on Eleanor of Aquitaine I can only account for my interest in her back to LIW. Have a great night everyone!  |
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Post by dreamer on Dec 13, 2006 19:09:22 GMT -5
Hi Richard,
how far have you got with Marlene - curious - and what do you think?
dreamer
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Post by Richard on Dec 14, 2006 15:19:03 GMT -5
Hi Dreamer,
It's just after the war. Marlene is in Europe still doing shows and is set to make a French picture with Jean Gabin; their relationship is starting to diminish at this point. This is 1945-46, I believe, and she had just been reunited with her mother. I don't have too much to say right now---it's been a great read and fascinating so far. I'm on page 550, or something rather, with another 200 to go before I'm finished.
Also a couple of weeks ago I rented "Marlene Dietrich: Her Own Song" and "Marlene Dietrich: An Evening With". The first one, a brilliant documentary, was very insightful. Considering I was reading Riva's book at the same time! Seen it? As for "An Evening With", I was more impressed by the treatment she received and the audiences' adoration for her at that point in her life. I really like to relish every moment of Dietrich, but she's not all that hot of a singer. Her performance must be one of those events where you had to be there to appreciate it, and feel her aura. She looked good. Nonetheless, I admire everything she has done during wartime and for "her boys".
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Post by dreamer on Dec 14, 2006 15:55:36 GMT -5
Hi Richard,
she was an entertainer - she could be very charming and thereby hmm cover some of her lacks later on.
The songs that I like are the German songs in particular "Lili Marlene". Her voice is more powerful in her own language. And the context of the song is amazing - even so the history of it. As you say everything for "her boys".
Funny I came to like Marlene because of Zarah Leander - couldn't hear who was who ::hi hi::
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Post by Shaun on Dec 14, 2006 23:18:06 GMT -5
All this talk about Marlene Dietrich has me interested. I think I'll look for those documentaries you mentioned R.
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Post by lionessinwinter on Dec 16, 2006 10:51:43 GMT -5
Does anyone have a good bio that I could read about Marlene? I have always heard in my reading about old Hollywood that she was quite fasinating
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Post by dreamer on Dec 16, 2006 11:29:48 GMT -5
I can only recommend what I know - so I would say "Marlene Dietrich by her Daughter" by Maria Riva. That is the book that Richard is reading at the moment. Maybe there is another but I'm not aware of it. |
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Post by dreamer on Dec 16, 2006 18:42:16 GMT -5
I'm still reading Katharine Hepburn by Michael Freedland. Quit interesting. He mentions that Hughes gave her a plane so that she could fly to Main to talk with Philip Barry about the play. We know that Hughes learned her to fly and Prideaux mentioned it in his book too - but did she have a license to fly  Or was that not necessary these days ? The book is interesting even thoug it is from 1984. |
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Post by Richard on Dec 25, 2006 0:43:24 GMT -5
I've finished reading my Dietrich book. When one reads this temperamental album of memoirs it will quickly materialize to the reader that it is imperative that they are able to differentiate between Marlene Dietrich The Legend, and the real Dietrich. Riva believes these are two different people and so do I.
I've thought about this for a while now; I am only "in love" with Dietrich The Legend -- the image Marlene allowed people to behold, adore, and ultimately idolize. She constantly refers to others outside of her inner circle as "strangers", and that they must not, under any circumstances, be permitted to witness what was really going on in her often unpleasant and even pleasant periods of her life; weather that be her countless lovers, or "victims" as Riva puts it, her addiction to alcohol in her later years, and the destruction of that beautiful figure. One thing is certain though, and that is no matter what she may have went through during that particular period; madly in love or not, mourning or not, intoxicated or not, she never ceases to be Dietrich. Whenever she puts on a show she has the entire audience at her feet, with applause overflowing the room, and that is just amazing. Except for, maybe, that one not so favorable review in where a critic refers to Dietrich as "that little old lady... that was".
Performances aside, the latter part of Riva's book that touches on Dietrich's later years in recluse starts to get cataclysmic. Marlene has numerous accidents; she whines--constantly, and her mood swings from giddy school girl to grumpy old broad. In otherwords, she has become very irritable. But then there were also those days where Marlene was charming and less cantankerous. As infrequent as they probably were, I would like to believe Maria enjoyed those moments.
I doubt that after reading this book any reader is going to think of Marlene Dietrich the same way again. There are plenty to delight in, to praise and to respect, but underneath all that glamour lies a woman who didn't quite have the "superior intellect" she often convinced herself she had. She has many peculiarities, some of which are of very bad taste. Her beliefs and overall behavior can drive a man insane, yet she can be the most generous person on the planet, and at the same time can be cruel and nasty and intolerable.
It didn't make me feel good reading this book, as she constantly insults a hell of a lot of people, largely unimpressed with the Hollywood community, disliking an endless list of co-stars (with a probable hatred to about 90% of the people she's met), but in spite of it all, this is the best damn biography I've ever read.
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Post by Richard on Dec 25, 2006 17:07:30 GMT -5
My next book arrived just a few days ago.  |
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Post by dreamer on Dec 25, 2006 20:18:56 GMT -5
Hi Richard,
your opinion on Marlene before and after reading the book is very much like mine. You explanation covered her well. But must admit that she never really amazed me. Her acting didn't convince me. So the book did not have the same impact on me.
I think she was a great entertainer though but not a very pleasant person. She had lack of empathy to-wards others.
Your last sentence made me smile - because as I read the book, I felt she thought she was above them all - the others were nothing compared to her. That is too what I meant with foreigner. You have to adjust and I don't think she did that to the extent she should have.
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Post by smith on Dec 25, 2006 21:16:27 GMT -5
Marlene knew both Katharine and Spencer - she really enjoyed flirting with Spencer .
I think Marlene's comment was he was a lonely man despite him having a wonderful relationship with Katharine
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Post by Richard on Dec 25, 2006 22:03:12 GMT -5
Hi Richard, your opinion on Marlene before and after reading the book is very much like mine. You explanation covered her well. But must admit that she never really amazed me. Her acting didn't convince me. So the book did not have the same impact on me. I think she was a great entertainer though but not a very pleasant person. She had lack of empathy to-wards others. Lack of empathy is exactly right. She does strike me as a difficult person to be around, very snobbish too. I never particularly cared for whatever came out of that woman's mouth; most of which was nonsense really--especially at the end of her life, but she was pretty senile then anyways, so I can't hold it against her. What really astounding me though, was her longevity of life. Considering what she did repeatedly with her unlimited supply of pharmaceuticals. It's amazing that she lived as long as she did. But she was damn good in ''Witness for the Prosecution''! Marlene knew both Katharine and Spencer - she really enjoyed flirting with Spencer . I think Marlene's comment was he was a lonely man despite him having a wonderful relationship with Katharine Yeah, Dietrich apparently liked Spencer, even Katharine, and admired how MGM was able to protect those two from scandels. |
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Post by Judy on Dec 26, 2006 9:40:08 GMT -5
Hi Richard, your opinion on Marlene before and after reading the book is very much like mine. You explanation covered her well. But must admit that she never really amazed me. Her acting didn't convince me. So the book did not have the same impact on me. I think she was a great entertainer though but not a very pleasant person. She had lack of empathy to-wards others. Your last sentence made me smile - because as I read the book, I felt she thought she was above them all - the others were nothing compared to her. That is too what I meant with foreigner. You have to adjust and I don't think she did that to the extent she should have. Well, she may not have had personal connection to people - one on one - but she certainly did more than most for the troups during WWII. End of her life was, I think, quite sad. Billy Wilder even said that she wouldn't see him, even though they were great friends. She didn't want to shatter the illusion. Even with a dear friend. She wouldn't let herself be seen in that Maximillian Schell documentary. I find that unbearably sad. And on the other hand we have Kate. She didn't hide from the world as she aged, she lived in it. |
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Just stumbled upon this interesting board.. Does anyone have any video interviews with KH?? Or maybe transcripts of them? I´ve been especially looking for the full version of the famous Cavett one forever and ever... 