Did They, Didn't They...?

[gottamatch]

Okay, I'm still a fairly new KH fan (probably near a year now) and there is something that I still don't know which I'm sure everyone here does so I'll take this opportinuty to get it cleared up by fellow fans;

Did Kate and Spence live together - ever?

In "All About Me" when she briefly talks about that bird she's sitting under, she says something like "It used to be in our house in Hollywood"

'Our' house? Who is 'our'?

I'm confused because I swear I read somewhere (Me?) that they never lived together. And in Kanin's book they don't even share a hotel room overseas so I presumed that if they didn't share a hotel room they surely wouldn't have shared a home..

And when Spence died "early" in the morning and Kate went into the kitchen - another indication they may have lived together or at least temporarily?

I'm confused

Jess

[dreamer]

I'm not the best to explain - but I will try my best

As for the bird in our house in Hollywood. Spencer had as I have understood no interest in making a home/building a nest - he was satisfied with hotel rooms. Kate on the other hand loved making it comfortable for him and did come with various furnitures and the bird - building a nest for him/them - so you can say it was THEIR home - only Spencer was the one who lived 24/7 in it. Kate was the one managing the household - being their for him. There they had many dinners with friends like the Bogarts and Kramers.

Officially - no they never lived together. Each of them had their address/home. But I am pretty sure that they like all couples had private times together too.
As they did on holidays. Each renting their own room (often in different hotels) - tricking the press and others.

Even if they didn't live in the same hotel - they spent the time together. Recently I was reminded by some lines by Peter O'Toole how I as a kid imagined them together. Here goes:

Peter O'Toole:

I remember once - few years - quite a few years before - seeing a car parked on Hampstead Heath and inquisitive wondering, who is in that parked car. And it was Spencer Tracy and Kate Hepburn.
They weren’t driving - just sitting looking at the sunset. And I felt intrusive - which I was. So I wandered away. But I could see this extraordinary affection between them.

But as you read - visiting each other. I would guess that Kate sneaked to him later on. Comforting to think of.

I just see them as a very modern couple - way ahead of time - living separately - and yet spending their lives together.

As for your confusion about the kitchen story as Spencer died. Kate was with Spencer in the house in the "backyard" of Cukor's estate - which he had rented from Cukor - 24/7 with him. They were hidden from the world and Kate could take care of him without getting noticed. As you know there was Louise and the children to consider. So at that time Kate was with Spencer.

As she was on many film sets - just to mention some: Cuba (The Old Man and The Sea) and Germany (Judgment at Nuremberg ) or on Maui (forgot the occasion )

I hope this helps you a bit!

Am pretty sure that the others have more to say and are better than I in explaining. So more will come - am possitive

[gottamatch]

Thanks dreamer!

That O'Toole quote was chilling. I loved reading that, comforting to know they had 'nice nothing' times like that. Adorable. I'd love to know what year that sighting was! I'm sure Peter himself forgot by the time he quoted that.

It (the car quote) reminds me of Betty and Bogie sitting in her car together (his parked behind), holding hands, waiting until the last minute possible in which they had to part, Bogie returning to his car, driving back to his then wife.

You're too right, way ahead of their time (particularly Kate). A very modern couple.

Thanks for the clear up on the kitchen story, I had no idea Spencer rented a house from Cukor and that he and Kate were staying there during GWCTD. Fascinating.

I remember in the Kanin book the story we all know with Spencer placing the 'emergency' call to Kate because he needed to talk to her (and then had a casual 30 minute conversation), so it's obvious to me that whether they lived together or not, any time away from each other was obviously a very difficult time for Spencer as well as Kate.

As for the Hollywood house, was it Kate's house or Spencer's hotel room?

Thanks very much, especially the P.O. quote. Lovely. I hope you're right and we get some more responses here. I've always been totally confused about the whole set up of ST and KH lol

Jess

[dreamer]

Jan 25, 2009 4:58:22 GMT -5 gottamatch said:

As for the Hollywood house, was it Kate's house or Spencer's hotel room?

It was the guest house on the grounds of George Cukor's estate where Spencer lived. And which Kate rented after Spencer died. The house Kate writes about in Me. Chapter: "Leaving the California house".

Here is a photo from the house with the swan (1974).

[dreamer]

Here is the link to the Peter O'Toole video

www.charlierose.com/view/interview/3343

and if you search a bit - there are other Kate related videos

[gottamatch]

Thank you! I just watched it. Awesome stuff, I'll search for other Kate videos also!

Jess

[HollywoodHepcat]

Actually chum, they *did* live together for a few years up until the end. I don't think she continued to rent the house down the road when they set-up housekeeping for keeps, as they say. 62' to 67'? Could have been '63. She did say in Me: "Spencer was not all too well and it was better to have me there." There are a few letters where she talks about Spencer coming home in a while, which implies they kept the same residence. So, you see...

[dreamer]

How did I not mention the 5 years that Kate didn't want to talk about Of course she did LIVE with him for those years. Thanks Amber

I still believe that Kate kept the house down the road/up hill. Because she wrote about calling Phyllis at John Barrymore´s birdhouse - their house in the trees the night Spencer died.

I might be wrong with my interpretation. Please do correct me if I am!!!

Is it just me - or do any of you guys feel uncomfortable talking about her private life with Spencer?!!

Am feeling it as being invasive

Or is it just me being oversensitive - as if something is to prove - where there is nothing to prove?

[HollywoodHepcat]

Don't worry about it, pal. She certainly could have afforded the rent on the Barrymore house is she so wished. I wasn't really thinking about that, but I believe you're right.

And as for feeling uncomfy, I tend to be fiercely protective of that relationship, so in order to defend them means knowing what I'm talking about--otherwise, I can't prove my point. Does that mean I want to know the "intimate" details? HELL NO OH GROSS YUCKS EWWWWWW.

(That doesn't mean I'm not curious. I think all Kate fans need to feel some vindication as far as Spencer is concerned.)

[dreamer]

As for the edit - there is something wrong with my firefox - went in to delete my last post - and only then I saw your reply Amber - so reposted the uncomfy thing again.

No it was NOT the intimate thing I meant. That is way too private for me to even mention.

As you put it "vindication" (had to look it up he he) - the ongoing proving of them being together. One gets sensitive and overprotective - to our right.

By the way you are not meant by this Jess

I guess I am sensitive - as most of us are - to that subject since a certain book was published

H*ll they loved each other and were together - people can't rewrite history - not even if they wanted to.

[HollywoodHepcat]

Oh dear, I wasn't talking about them as a couple. I meant vindication that Spencer wasn't a true blue d-o-u-c-h-e half (read: all) the time. I feel that isn't asking for too much. I love the old boy as much as the next person, but I can't help it if he has become a stick in my craw.

[dreamer]

Oh - we are on the same wave.
That I hadn't understood - nor had it crossed my mind. To me Spencer is and was a good man. Maybe troubled at times (aren't all - and does it make someone to something lesser?). To me that doesn't indicate that he was less man - he was just human. Kate loved him - which is good enough for me.

[HollywoodHepcat]

That's where I get off from our mutual wave and start surfing on my own (without Bobby H., thank you viddy much). It's not good enough for me, nor do I think it ever will be. Le sigh.

[gottamatch]

You guys are too cute. And I'm glad it wasn't about my original post, thanks for bringing that up cause I WAS wondering haha

Yeah as for the 'intimate' stuff, I would never talk about that especially on an internet forum either because I think Kate would be mortified!

As for this:

I guess I am sensitive - as most of us are - to that subject since a certain book was published

I'm so new to being a Kate fan that I have no idea about this or what it means. I can only presume someone published a biography that told a whole lot of lies? That happened to Barbra Streisand within the past couple of years (another favourite of mine). It's pathetic.

Perhaps someone could privately message me and tell me the book and author so I don't buy the book therefore giving them any royalties undeserved.

You guys are awesome

xx

Jess

[dreamer]

Jan 25, 2009 19:11:24 GMT -5 HollywoodHepcat said:

That's where I get off from our mutual wave and start surfing on my own (without Bobby H., thank you viddy much). It's not good enough for me, nor do I think it ever will be. Le sigh.

Bobby who?