Spencer's kindness to Katharine

[smith]

A lot of ink and rightly so has been written about what Katharine did for Spencer but I think we forget what he did for Katharine. It was not a one way relationship.

1. He was very kind and caring to Katharine when she was ill in England in the early 1950's - a friend described him as an angel.

2. He defended Katharine against the personal attacks by Menjou when they were filming State of the Union and he chewed out the unknown playwright when he criticised Katharine (its in the Garson Kanin book)

[Cate]

Did he ever say he loved her? Didn't I read that he never did...? Just want to clear that up for myself.

[gypsygem81]

catherine said:

Did he ever say he loved her? Didn't I read that he never did...? Just want to clear that up for myself.

I'm sure I read that too - maybe in Me?

Love Gem

[karina]

Yes, it was in Me, although I'm sure he showed his love for her in other ways - you know what they say, "actions speak louder than words".

So why did Kate also claim not to know whether or not Spence loved her? I've always thought this was one of the saddest things she said

[Cate]

That's right... yeah that is very sad considering he was the love of her life. Men can be such bastards. ;D Actions do speak louder than words but if you've got the ability to speak, words are nice as well. Maybe he would have felt even more guilty for cheating on his wife if he professed his love for her.

[smith]

It was Joe Mank who said that Spencer said the most wonderful things about Katharine but he rarely said them to her face . He told a mutual friend , Martin Jurow about Katharine at some stage and said how wonderful she was but Katharine never got to hear this until Spencer had died and Martin told her . He said her face lit up when she heard this .

I don't think Louise was the issue . Because even though Spencer was legally married Spencer and Katharine had a committment to each other and there was the expectation of fidelity - it wasn't an open relationship where either partner could go off and have an affair with somebody else . And also I suspect people in earlier generations were less likely to tell their partners that they loved them . A generational thing

[Sherry]

Or perhaps Kate just didn't wish to have to discuss with anyone that ST told her that he loved her.
Because people pry and the next questions would have been, "What did he say? When did he say it? Where did he say it the first time?" etc. etc.
Kate for all of her public utterances via print and television interviews and her two books was still a person who was very private. I've been reading about Kate for over 40 years (46 to be precise) as has at least one other person who writes on this site and we agree that for all that we know about Kate, there is still a lot that we don't and probably never will know.
I do think that ST told Kate that he loved her but I also think that it was like the years from 1962 to 1967 -- not a topic for discussion and she basically made it a non-topic by making a statement upfront that she never knew whether or not he loved her because he never said it.
I've always felt that she just didn't want to have that discussion and her statement sort of erected a wall which she could retreat behind when the question was asked.

If you have ever seen Barbara Walter's 1987 interview with Kate and watched her beam when the conversation turned to Tracy, you would know that this was a woman who knew that she was loved.

OR -- watch the Spencer Tracy Legacy and note the look on her face, the light in her eyes, the smile, her body language and the young girl who emerges when she stands in front of the Thalberg Building at MGM and recreates the moment when she first met Spencer in the company of Joe Mankiewicz. Again -- a woman in love and a woman who knew she was loved.

[Judy]

sherry said:

Or perhaps Kate just didn't wish to have to discuss with anyone that ST told her that he loved her.
Because people pry and the next questions would have been, "What did he say? When did he say it? Where did he say it the first time?" etc. etc.
Kate for all of her public utterances via print and television interviews and her two books was still a person who was very private. I've been reading about Kate for over 40 years (46 to be precise) as has at least one other person who writes on this site and we agree that for all that we know about Kate, there is still a lot that we don't and probably never will know.
I do think that ST told Kate that he loved her but I also think that it was like the years from 1962 to 1967 -- not a topic for discussion and she basically made it a non-topic by making a statement upfront that she never knew whether or not he loved her because he never said it.
I've always felt that she just didn't want to have that discussion and her statement sort of erected a wall which she could retreat behind when the question was asked.

If you have ever seen Barbara Walter's 1987 interview with Kate and watched her beam when the conversation turned to Tracy, you would know that this was a woman who knew that she was loved.

OR -- watch the Spencer Tracy Legacy and note the look on her face, the light in her eyes, the smile, her body language and the young girl who emerges when she stands in front of the Thalberg Building at MGM and recreates the moment when she first met Spencer in the company of Joe Mankiewicz. Again -- a woman in love and a woman who knew she was loved.

You took the words right outta my (big) mouth. :-)

And I'll just add this. While it's one thing for her to write in great detail about what SHE felt, it's quite another to sit for an interview -- for ALL her ego and me, me, me-ness -- or to even put down on paper -- what she knew HE felt. That would have been unseemly.

So instead she said she "hoped" she made him happy. She "hoped" she made him feel safe...and if he hadn't "liked" her he probably wouldn't have stuck around because, as she specifically said to Walters in one interview, "he didn't have to."

I think that at the end of her life she was feeling regrets about some of the ways they were forced to live their lives -- she does write in ME that perhaps they should have done things differently -- but I never felt from any of her neat little avoidances about that "love" question, that she did not know deep down that he did.

Judy

[smith]

I have to agree with Judy here - I think when she wrote the book she had some regrets about the way they ended up living their life - but I think she regretted it more for Spencer .

And when she came to write the book - I think she was uncomfortable in writing about some aspects of her personal life and that's fine .

[kathfan88]

In a book I read, can't remember the authers name right at this second but you might, she said the meaning of life was that you get to love someone and if you're lucky someone loves you back. I think she was talking about Spencer there.

[Sherry]

kathfan88 said:

In a book I read, can't remember the authers name right at this second but you might, she said the meaning of life was that you get to love someone and if you're lucky someone loves you back. I think she was talking about Spencer there.

That sentiment is from Kate's book "Me: Stories of My Life"
page 389 -- the chapter titled "Love"

"Love has nothing to do with what you are expecting to get -- only with what you are expecting to give -- which is everything.
What you will receive in return varies. But it really has no connection with what you give. You give because you love and cannot help giving. If you are lucky, you may be loved back."

[kathfan88]

Oh thanx Sherry! I'm really gonna have to buy that book, I keep checking it out from the library.

[lolita88]

What was Kate ill with in England in the 50s?

[Hep]

I think she was ill from some disease she got in Africa; right?

and if i am lol.. i think she was like the only one that got sick .. ?
maybe?

[lionessinwinter]

If I remember correctly I think that Kate suffered with dysentery that she caught in Africa for quite awhile. One of the after effects of trying to be sober in comparison to Bogey and Huston who were constantly drinking.